Government tight-lipped on chopper delays
As the 50th anniversary of the Canadian Forces’ Sea King helicopter approaches, its replacement is nowhere in sight and Ottawa is being tight-lipped, says long-time Nova Scotia MP Peter Stoffer.
The most recent deadline of June for the delivery of the first CH-148 Cyclone has come and gone. Sikorsky International Operations Inc. has been contracted to deliver 28 of the state-of-the-art helicopters.
“And we still don’t know when these helicopters are going to come in,” Stoffer, who represents Sackville-Eastern Shore, said in a telephone interview Monday evening.
“I can only assume that the men and women who work at 12 Wing Shearwater are disappointed as well and shrugging their shoulders and saying, ‘What else is new?’
“I wish Sikorsky and the Canadian government would sit down and hold a public press conference and tell the public what’s going on.”
The Canadian government started looking at replacing the Sea Kings in the 1980s.
In 1992, the Conservative government of former prime minister Brian Mulroney decided to buy 50 EH-101s, but the $5.8-billion deal was torn up by the Liberals when they came to power the following year.
Jean Chretien’s government paid
$500 million in penalties for backing out of that deal.
A deal for 28 choppers to replace the Sea Kings was finally signed in 2004. At the time, Sikorsky was to deliver the Cyclones by July 2008. That deadline later got pushed back to last month.
Stoffer said he was there for the Sikorsky announcement and wondered at the time if the four-year delivery timeline was too short, and it turned out he was right.
Although he said Sikorsky is a good firm, Stoffer added that it appears the company may have been the wrong choice for Canada.
The cost of the helicopters is expected to come in at about $5.7 billion.
“It appears to be a whole string of problems here, and I think what Canadians are asking for, they are footing the bill, and the men and women of the navy are asking for, is, ‘Please tell us the truth. What is going on here? When are those helicopters going to be here?’”
In the meantime, the Royal Canadian Air Force is struggling to keep the aging Sea Kings in the air.
The Sea Kings have been plagued by technical problems, leading to crashes and regular groundings.
In 2010, auditor general Sheila Fraser said the final bill for the new helicopters will be $6.2 billion when the cost of maintaining the Sea Kings through the delays is considered.
“How long can you keep putting money into these ones?” Stoffer asked.
Canada first started purchasing Sea Kings in 1963.
The Amazing Stoffer
Submitted by Halifax Author on July 3, 2012 - 8:43am.
"Stoffer said he was there for the Sikorsky announcement and wondered at the time if the four-year delivery timeline was too short, and it turned out he was right."
I am sure his aerospace engineering experience led him to that thought or perhaps it was wishful thinking at the time, or, did it even happen...
So his answer is that Sikorsky must not be a good fit for Canada because of the delay. Well, he must be right because surely this is the first time a military aircraft purchase has been delayed for some reason or another.
Methinks thou dost protest...
Submitted by Steve Abbott on July 3, 2012 - 3:11pm.
too much. Did you have a point about politicians needing aerospace engineering experience to criticise an aircraft purchase? Would they need such in order to make a purchase in the first place? Would the military need such in order to specify their needs? Is it possible that such would have been useful far earlier in the purchase process? Perhaps the entire process should be handed to a committee of MPs comprised of all the aerospace engineers in Parliament?
Or perhaps we should conclude that zero qualification be required to spend 5.8 billion, and that full qualifications in all related fields be required in order to monitor or audit the process?
Shiela Frazer spotted problems with this purchase before she ever questioned the same lack of adherence to proper purchasing guidlines by the military in the FU-35 purchase.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/auditorgeneral/article/881318--audito...
Amateur Hour at Sikorsky and Harperland
Submitted by CapeHalifax on July 3, 2012 - 4:59pm.
Did you just agree with Stoffer that any company that can't stick to a contract, give a reasonable delivery time, hold costs down due to their obviously inadequate management, give a timely account of themselves is not a good company to be putting our national faith in?
You repeated his claim without refuting it.
Sikorsky is only one manufacturer in this line of work and they don't seem to value their business relationship with the Canadian people.
One thing this article didn't repeat was a claim in an earlier article that military arms suppliers had a very nasty habit of shifting delivery priorities to larger clients even if those clients entered the pipe later.
What Stoffer is very much correct about is the information gap that The Harper Government is guilty of. Here again we have a major procurement project that seems to have come off the rails and the Canadian people are being kept, apparently, purposefully in the dark.
These guys are, apparently, boobs as governors.
April Fools
Submitted by jynx.on.us on July 3, 2012 - 9:34am.
A Canadian military Sikorsky CH-148 Cyclone conducts tests in Halifax harbour on April 1, 2010. The most recent deadline of June for the delivery of the helicopters has come and gone and the federal government is being tight-lipped about the delay. (CP)This was just a joke that took a little too long.
chopper delays
Submitted by leftiessuk on July 3, 2012 - 10:00am.
"In 1992, the Conservative government of former prime minister Brian Mulroney decided to buy 50 EH-101s, but the $5.8-billion deal was torn up by the Liberals when they came to power the following year.
Jean Chretien’s government paid $500 million in penalties for backing out of that deal.
A deal for 28 choppers to replace the Sea Kings was finally signed in 2004. The cost of the helicopters is expected to come in at about $5.7 billion."
--------------------------
SO... 28 inferior Cyclones for 6.2 billion vs. 50 superior EH-101's for $5.8 billion. Thanks to that idiot chretien, where was the AG on this boondoggle?
Did you mention..?
Submitted by Steve Abbott on July 3, 2012 - 3:46pm.
"Thanks to that idiot chretien, where was the AG on this boondoggle?"
Did you mention that Kim Campbell had already reduced the size of that purchase from 50 to 44, before Chretien came to power? It appears that by that time it was already recognised that they had been a foolhardy expense. Perhaps it was also foolhardy to have entered into an unaffordable contract with a half billion penalty clause attached?
As to the auditor general, yes, she did actually notice it back in October 2010. Have a read:
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/auditorgeneral/article/881318--audito...
She was somewhat critical of DND under both parties, but if I recall correctly, the Cons passed legislation back in 2006 to resolve that problem. How did that work out?
Clever name, leftiessuk. I suppose your parents were concerned that you should have a clear handle by which to be identified when you make world shaking proclamations if you should grow up.
Inferior
Submitted by Halifax Author on July 3, 2012 - 3:48pm.
'inferior'
I don't think so. The Cyclone is light years ahead of the Merlin.
should have gone with the Merlin
Submitted by MarkyMark on July 3, 2012 - 10:16am.
My brother in law works at Shearwater and he says a lot of personnel lament that the CF never went with the Merlin (I think we were going to call it the Petrel). But that was cancelled 20 years ago next year so I guess we have to move on.
Can the Chronicle-Herald provide some detail on why the Cyclone is taking so long to be delivered? The S-92 civilian version has been running for over a decade now. Wasn't it an S-92 that crashed off Newfoundland a few winters ago? Is this a case of ASW gear not being compatible with the air frame? Is the air frame bad? Is Sikorsky as a company having financial difficulty? etc. etc.
The real reason?
Submitted by dj_herbal_T on July 3, 2012 - 10:55am.
Well, since the government won't tell us what the problem is with our own money, I believe we are free (for now, anyway) to speculate:
Maybe there was a problem moving money to the Caymans?
Stoffer-Military
Submitted by Louis Burg on July 3, 2012 - 10:54am.
I don't get why Peter Stoffer gets quoted so much as being a friend of the military when he has voted against every single military budget allocation since becoming an MP. Every single vote has been no.
It makes no sense that Stoffer votes against the military getting any money, but the Herald consistently quotes him as someone who thinks the military ought to be doing this or that.
Peter
Submitted by law on July 3, 2012 - 12:21pm.
Peter Stoffer is nothing more then a grand Stander. He likes to hear himself. He has turned into one of the most deceptive and issue turning Politicians I can recall. The Gun Registry took his credibility and through it out the window. Why he portrays himself as the Defence expert baffles me. He has done nothing constructive other then talk the talk. Surely the CH could find someone more credible then this individual to get its info.
Now as for the Helo, yes it is delayed, has been for quite some time. I do agree that DND (the Minister) should make a statement regarding its delay as well.
Keep Stoffer away from the Military...PLEASE!!!
typical ...
Submitted by pensive on July 3, 2012 - 12:25pm.
... media sensationalism ... try to make a story out of something a wishy-washy NDP MP makes on a topic he knows absolutely nothing about. Talk about factual, balanced reporting ... but then again, we're talking about the Chronicle Herald.
At least they had enough nads to admit, "In 1992, the Conservative government of former prime minister Brian Mulroney decided to buy 50 EH-101s, but the $5.8-billion deal was torn up by the Liberals when they came to power the following year. Jean Chretien’s government paid
$500 million in penalties for backing out of that deal."
How many people have died because of Cheatien's dictatorial order??
GROUND THE SEA_KINGS, NOW.
Submitted by bearpaw on July 3, 2012 - 12:30pm.
Ground all the SeaKings, now, before another accident, and save maintennce money. Wait for the new choppers. So we don't have choppers for a while. So what? Same with the subs. Sink them now and save lives and maintenance money. We haven't actually had to use subs for umpteen years. Why do we need them now? Answer is,WE DON'T.
Answer Is
Submitted by bro tim on July 4, 2012 - 11:27am.
we do. Just because you say something you know nothing about doesn't make it true. Not having subs DOES hurt operational activities. Not having choppers does hurt operational activities. It is obvious you have no experience or education in things military.
The reason we are in crisis today about these two pieces of hardwear is simple - his name was Cretien. They cancelled the EH-101s and traded use of a couple of base for mothballed subs. As usual the men and women of the military are pulling off miracles with old, decrepit hardware.
One thing we do know about Sikorsky is they build an aircraft that is ver diffiicult to kill. At least we know when we get the Cyclones, like the Sea King (also Sikorsky) they will last about 50 years.
SEAKING REPLACEMENT
Submitted by ericedgar on July 3, 2012 - 12:36pm.
Contrary to this story, the Royal Canadian Navy is not having a hard time maintaining the Seakings since a Defence Minister named Hellyer caused the demise of the Naval Air Branch of the RCN. The Royal Canadian Air Force maintain the Seakings and as far as I know they are still providing yeoman service to Canada. Incidently I was on the 1st Seaking maintainers course at Sikorsky nearly 50 years ago and I was also on the team at IMP that selected the Cormorant to replace the Seaking. Thanks to the Liberals we have neither a Naval Air Element in Canada nor do we have a replacement for the Seaking in the near future.
Eric G. Edgar, MMM , CD, Capt. Ret'd
EDITOR'S NOTE: Thank you for your comment. The story has been corrected.
Imagine this
Submitted by No problem here... on July 3, 2012 - 12:51pm.
If the government cannot fulfill a contract for 50 0r so helicopters with their legions of civil servants can you imagine what kind of a boon doggle the ships contract are going to be? All of the money allotted will be spent on studies, studies, studies and more studies, I am told that Sikorskey is getting so P.O.'d with all of the low level civil servants requests for clarification on this and change on that that they were on the verge of backing out. I guess when the government advertises public service jobs as "Lifetime" they are not kidding, not in the least.
Lets just build them ourselves
Submitted by frustrated bigtime on July 3, 2012 - 1:01pm.
Lets just spend the money to build them ourselves and maintain them ourselves for gods sake, we have the money and the people to do it so lets get it done right and move on with this. We are not only putting people at risk because of how old our choppers are but the people who crew them must be totally frustrated with what they have to deal with these old choppers.
Check your facts
Submitted by dartmouthbobby on July 3, 2012 - 1:12pm.
"The Sea Kings have been plagued by technical problems, leading to crashes and regular groundings."
Not sure where CH gets off saying this. I've been a tech in Shearwater for the better part of a decade, and the fleet has not been grounded once in that entire time. The last crash was 8 years ago. If you were to check the crash statistics, you'd find that the Sea King has an incredible success rate, and a very very low crash rate.
Lets put the blame where it belongs.
Submitted by sandylns on July 3, 2012 - 6:31pm.
This has been a political football since Chretien cancelled the EH-101. By what criteria does Stoffer base his assumption that Sikorsky was the wrong choice? This man has voted against EVERY military bill presented to the House since he became an MP.This includes all the bills that enhanced veterans benefits.
I guess being a former union organiser and ticket agent for the now defunct Canadian Airlines makes him an expert on helicopters.
Lets put the blame where it belongs. Both Martin and Chretien had dealings with this contract. Harper just inherited the mess created by these two buffoons as he has also done for the F35. Doesn't stop Stoffer from bending the truth.